A tad hyperbolic perhaps? :-)

As always a bit of information would help. 

First off, are you aware of and using the paved only/all/gravel options? 

If set to Paved only and you're trying to send it to unpaved places that would explain the problem. 

Are you using a phone or computer? I find the accuracy of viapoint placement to be much more accurate on a big screen and without my clumsy fingers. Any route planner will behave oddly if we put a viapoint in an unusual place. (Undo is great for this). 

Finally, it maybe a problem in the underlying data. If you could post a link to a particular example you have in mind that would be helpful. 

The best way to choose an adventurous, more off-road way between two points is to begin to plan your route using the ‘Gravel’ setting. 

Then add via points by clicking anywhere on the route (or double-tapping on mobile), and choose ‘Add via point’.

Once you’ve done this, for each via point, you can choose between ‘Any way’ (c.t’s standard routing) and ‘Gravel’ for the subsequent section. This allows you to mix up normal routing and off-road routing on the same route.

Hobbes is 100% spot on that dragging is harder on mobile – the map library code we use (Leaflet) is a bit clunkier with tapping than it is with mouse interaction sadly. But if you can describe a scenario in which it goes Timbuktu-like then I can have a look if there’s any way to make it easier.

I didn't realise that we could effectively mix'n'match the gravel option with a "normal" route like that. That's really, really interesting! 

As for clumsy figures on a phone, a misplaced via point trying to get to Cadiz in southern Spain had CT directing me to take a ferry to the Canary Islands - and back! :-)

Thanks, it was on a PC and it was on the gravel setting, but I'll give it a go adding one section at a time rather than dragging.

My specific problem was trying to get the route to drop off NCN 47 onto Glyncorrwg/Afan mtb trails, but maybe the issue is that some of the trails (e.g. Skyline) and some of the fire roads aren't on the map, and if I venture off the gpx my Garmin goes mental and uses its entire battery in two seconds. Is that enough hyperbole? :-)

if I venture off the gpx my Garmin goes mental and uses its entire battery in two seconds. Is that enough hyperbole? :-)

In my limited Garmin experience that sounds about right! :-)

You may find it helpful to disable automatic rerouting on the unit, if possible.

It may also be helpful to investigate a couple of CT features.

The first is the "direct to" feature which can plot a line from one viapoint to another. Not perfect, and your GPS will still try to keep you on course, but it means that you can follow a preprepared route. I have no idea what happens to elevation data in this case. 

More info here: 

https://cycle.travel/forum/thread/5151

The other is the"trace gpx" feature which allows us to see a gpx "trace" on the screen from which we can then make a route. Handy if you have already ridden the route or have found a gpx of someone who has. More info here:

https://cycle.travel/forum/thread/5210

As always, a link to the route might result in more specific and helpful responses.

I just did a search and found the Skyline gpx on RWGPS. There seem to be other versions available. 

Using the trace feature outlined above I had no issue plotting a route along it. It appears to be made up of different named sections, some of which are visible by clicking on a point along the route (check the dialogue box). 

As a subscriber, I have access to different maps and the naming information for these types of routes is sometimes clearer on maps other than CT. 

I can't speak for any other MTB routes in the area but there is no issue with creating one for the Skyline route. 

Riding it though? That looks tricky! :-)

Wow, lots of info, thank you. The software's clearly a lot more sophisticated than me. I'll have a play.

https://cycle.travel/map/journey/476559

I got the trace of Skyline on the map, result. But if I try to drag the route onto it, or click on it, it doesn't follow the blue line. Can I get it to do that? Is there a manual plotting function I can't find?

It's not clear to me from that route what it is you're attempting to do. All the Skyline or part of it? 

Add and use the viapoints to go where you want to go. 

Personally, I prefer to add viapoints from the end, not the start. 

On a twisty, turny, loop like the Skyline placement of viapoints is vital. One in the wrong place will throw the route into chaos. 

It may help to focus on just one section then, when happy, move onto the next.

So, for example, if I wanted to include *all* the Skyline as part of a longer route I'd start with a blank map, add the Trace gpx, add in the start and end points (start and end of Trace), then working backwards add a viapoint where the CT route was different to the Trace, drag that onto the Trace and repeat. 

Once I was happy with that, I'd save it, then start adding in the before & after sections, perhaps with a different name so that I always had the Skyline section "safe". 

If you're not used to doing this, I'd heartily recommend practising on a simpler example to get used to the process. Pick any decent stretch of "bike route", add start and end points then practice getting the CT route to match the official one.

If you're not aware, clicking on any point on the route will give the option of a Street view or to look at photos. Most off-road routes don't have street view (no cars) but the photos can give a good indication of what you will be facing in to.

Thanks, I have done as you suggest (https://cycle.travel/map/journey/476741) and can make the route follow SOME of the trace (waymark 3 to the end) but not between waymarks 1 and 3. I realise now you can't see the trace, but I need to head south in a big oakleaf for 15k or so starting at point 1 and rejoining at point 3. I cannot get the route to follow that part at all.

I'm sorry to monopolise your time. Just tell me I'm an idiot if you want :-)

I think it’s probably because the paths are either missing in OSM or not marked as allowing bikes. As a general rule, if there’s nothing showing on the default c.t map, you can’t route that way; if there’s a faint green dotted line, you probably can’t (though c.t will sometimes let you drag a route onto a green dotted footpath with an attendant warning about having to push your bike).

In particular, in the UK, if something is purely marked as a “track” in OSM with no indication of bike access, c.t won’t let you route along it. 

I'm sorry to monopolise your time. Just tell me I'm an idiot if you want :-)

Not at all. You're in a very different part of the world to me, doing a very different kind of riding to me and I enjoy learning about this stuff. Besides, poor Richard has his hands full improving two apps! 

Your use of "waymark" is throwing me. If referring to viapoints 1 & 3 the Trace gpx file is nowhere near there - or at least the RWGPS trace that I am using. 

I can see that some of the Skyline route won't plot at all on CT (I originally looked closer to the town starting with G) but you can see in the example below how I would work around that by using the part that does work, (viapoint 7), using the "direct to" feature (to viapoint 8) and writing a note to myself (viapoint 7) to not loop back the way I came.

https://cycle.travel/map/journey/477146cycle.travel/map/journey/477146

The risk is that there may be different trails up there not showing on any maps that may be confusing in real time. Your Garmin will beep all the time you're not on the "straight line" but should pick up the route again at viapoint 9. 

It's not perfect, but It does allow you to have one whole route.

Of course, it all depends on the accuracy of the gpx Trace that you are using. There is no guarantee for that! 

It's worth remembering that what you are looking to do is right on the limit of what CT does - in fact, there's an argument to be made that CT is not the best planner for this type of riding - and that other options may be better. I'm thinking RWGPS and (perish the thought, Komoot).

In fairness, you started looking for more adventurous options. These are pretty extreme! :-)

Given the distance of the whole route and its location I would be very wary of getting lost or delayed (I'd imagine rain would be challenging) so I'd make sure I had an official route and a map of that Skyline section and/or ride on a day that I know others will be doing the route. 

It doesn't appear to be the case here as it is an official MTB route but in other areas there is conflict growing because bikers are using dedicated hiking trails. Sometimes there is a reason CT won't route us where we want to go! 

It would be great if you come back with how the planning and the ride went. Good luck!

OK, thanks Richard and Hobbes. That part of the mtb trail is relatively newly opened after they built a wind farm, so it's simply not on the map. I have previously used Bikehike which allows me to plot a route anywhere at all by clicking on every turn, and I was trying to do the same here. I will try uploading the gpx from CT to Bikehike later and see if I can add in Skyline there. (Sorry, with waymark I meant viapoint! I'm an amateur!)

PS The route isn't that adventurous really because (a) the Skyline trail is waymarked and (b) I know most of the route. I just want to get the complete route accurately onto my Garmin, because last time I did a similar route, both of my Garmins and my phone ran out of battery so I didn't get enough adulation on Strava :-)

Making the “go direct” feature more flexible is a long-standing wish, but it’s a particularly gnarly bit of the route-planner code, and usually I spend about a day frowning at it before throwing my hands up in the air and going to do something more achievable. I’ll get there one day :)

Fair enough :-) Thanks for your hard work so far!

Expecting this ? 

https://www.routeyou.com/nl-gb/route/view/13319426/mountainbikeroute/journey-477146

Thanks Willy, so you upload the route from here to Route You and then altered it there? 

The southbound bit isn't right (should be further east), but the northbound bit is. I actually rode the route yesterday... and missed a sign on the northbound bit but no drama. Also missed a couple of turns elsewhere and had to wade through a river, but on a sunny day it all adds to the fun :-)

It still didn't work as the eastern part of the loop isn't on the underlying map.

I think turning off rerouting on the Garmin is my best bet.