Oh, I see now that clicking "busy road" under "route summary" does take me to the busy road sections, but for some reason this isn't happening consistently.   Actually, a lot of the features are behaving strangely and inconsistently.  I'll try a different browser.

Under "route summary" where it shows "busy road", "paved road", etc, I'd like to click "busy road" and see the sections of my tentative route that this applies to so that I can look at those parts more closely and decide whether I want to find an alternative. I see how paved vs unpaved is color coded on the route, but how do I find the "busy" or "pushing" sections?

Terri, you don't say where in the world you are. That might help.

I don't think that kind of functionality exists on CT at the moment. A quick test here showed the "man pushing" symbol on the turn by turn directions but that was for a pedestrian zone. 

However, I'm not sure how useful that functionality could be, especially on a long route. A hundred meters here, another there could lead to a very complicated looking map.

There are other factors to consider too.  A road might be chaotically busy at 8:50 am and almost empty by 9:15. A quiet road may become busy if there are roadworks or speed traps on the main alternative. A busy road with a good shoulder can be far more pleasurable and safer than a quieter road that is popular with wannabee racers. Some roads are incredibly popular with motorbikers - but you'll only see them on the weekend. Ditto for harvest time, unusual weather, special events. Surface information can be notoriously tricky too. The data that Ct uses from OpenStreetMap can vary in quality and accuracy depending on where in the world you are too. 

 It can be complicated and statistics only give a part of the overall picture. Much better to have a flexible approach and the ability to call up or plan an alternative on the fly. 

For what it's worth, I'd trust any CT route over anything generated by any other planner. I once let CT plot a route from the Netherlands to Ireland. It took less than 15 minutes, including the time it took to write up some notes on campsites.  

I'd like to see the "any", "paved" and "gravel" routes altogether on the map so that I can compare them. Is there a way to do that on cycle.travel or would I have to export them to another app?

I don't think that functionality exists at the moment either, although I can see some benefits to it. I would imagine that displaying climbing information would be troublesome to incorporate for multiple routes on the one page. And without climbing information comparisons aren't very useful - unless you live in a very, very flat place! 

There already is a feature "Find Alternative" but that chooses an alternative based on the parameters already chosen so it won't, for example, give a gravel option and a paved option. 

Similarly, if you save different alternatives of the same route in the one folder you can display all the routes on the one map - but without any information. That at least, gives an indication of where the different options will bring you. (For a long journey it's great - each day shown on the map, one after the other!)

 Depending on what you want to compare you could import a gravel and a paved version into another planner. Osmand is one app that will display two or more routes but again, I'm unsure what will be achieved. 

A BIG word of warning involving importing and exporting routes. They can be changed on importation! So, if you load a CT route into Osmand, change it in Osmand and go to re-import it into CT there is no guarantee that the route will be exactly the same. 

I hope you don't mind me observing that it seems a focus of your planning seems to be on what to avoid. Obviously, depending on your location and the type of bike you ride things can vary but I always find the most enjoyable rides to be when I am going somewhere I want to go. Knowing that I am on this road because I wanted to be is psychologically more empowering and gives me more strength to deal with adversity. 

My suggestion, respectfully made, would be to focus a little less on the detail in the planning and put the energy into developing your skills in creating alternatives on the fly and switching the mentality from "what do I want to avoid" and more towards "what do I want to see and experience" and preparing accordingly. 

Long ago, before I ever had a gps unit or knew that CT existed, I fell in love with cycle touring when I hit a switch in my head from "being lost" to "exploring". It was a revelation. All the stress of being lost dissolved in favour of the excitement and wonder of exploration. No matter how much I planned, nothing could prepare me for the here and now. Don't let "on the road" you be a slave to "home planner" you. 

There will always be things we want to avoid. Sometimes they stop people from ever setting off. 

Good luck!

I rode half of the Transandalus in Andalucia, Spain last year and had a great time.  I've done a lot of bicycle touring but that was my first off-road trip, first bike trip in Europe and first time navigating with a gps device (i.e. wikilocs on my iphone) which was essential, given that it's an unmarked, mountain bike route.

But, that much time on a mountain bike hurt my back, so rather than do the rest of the Transandalus this fall, I'm going to do a road/touring bike trip instead.  I'm planning to ride El Camino del Cid which starts near Burgos, Spain,  but I want to start in Santillana del Mar so I asked cycle.travel to propose a route from Santillana del Mar to Burgos with a via point in Reinosa.

 It's great to hear that you've been happy with the routes that cycle.travel came up with.   I also like that cycle.travel says what percentage of a route is on "busy roads", whatever the criteria may be for that, and it makes sense to me to take a closer look at those parts of the route.  It may be that I like climbing and dislike traffic more than you do :)    

When I rode the Transandalus, I had both the official mountain bike route and a similar but more road oriented route that I found on wikilocs together on a google map.  This usually made it easy for me to choose a very good road alternative on days when the mountain bike route looked too technical for me. 

What do you use to navigate with while you're riding?  What do you find helpful when you need to find your way or find an alternative to your planned route on the fly? 

What do you use to navigate with while you're riding?

Since I acquired a gps device I use a Wahoo unit, currently a Roam. My early experience with a Garmin was not positive.

Since I'm currently based in Europe, Spain, as it happens, I use CT almost exclusively. Since before I had a gps device Osmand has been by go-to back up. A fabulous bit of kit but with an unfortunately steep learning curve. I also talk to people! :-) Mind you, not all suggestions or advice, even from other cyclists, are reliable!

What do you find helpful when you need to find your way or find an alternative to your planned route on the fly?

As above. A Wahoo unit and CT, sometimes Osmand. Osmand gives an alternative way of displaying elevation data to CT. Quite similar to the CT surface data, really. "5km @ 4-8%" type stuff. I never use Google to navigate. Google maps has its advantages but bike navigation is not one of them!

However, there is also my head. An app and a gps unit will point me in the right direction (usually), but it's my head that gets me to enjoy it. I have "tools" to get my head back on track if it goes off course. In Spain, that often involves food or coffee :-) Or a menu del día with a cold beer or a delicious tinto. 

I'm planning to ride El Camino del Cid which starts near Burgos, Spain,

There are some wonderful places to visit along there and some spectacular views. A word of warning - it can be very hilly and the combination of heat and climbing can be tough, physically. Not all public water fountains can be relied on for water at that time of the year, either.  

.....first bike trip in Europe......

Well, as someone with a few more kms under my belt in Europe, I'll put my head on the block and suggest that Spain is probably the best place to go for a bike ride and points to why context is important. 

The two most uncomfortable experiences I had last year in Spain were both within a short distance of each other and both due to heavy traffic in tourist areas. The first was in a town and the issue was with foreign drivers who were as unfamiliar with the local road layout as myself, the second, a small, narrow, coastal road, late in the evening in foul weather slowing everyone down and making riding (and driving) much more difficult.   

Strict driving laws and a healthy cycling culture means that even a "busy" road is perfectly comfortable to ride. You don't say where you ride normally, but it's very, very different to my experience in the U.S., as an example. Indeed, sometimes the most uncomfortable part is a car, respectfully waiting for a sufficiently straight section to appear in order to overtake completely in the other lane!  

If you're not aware the full Camino del Cid is available on CT under "Route Guides" (full list). I believe that's the on-road version. There is an off-road version too. (In fact, I believe there are at least 4 versions - 2 for bikes, one for cars and another for motorbikes!. The Spanish do tourism very well!)

If, after your trip your abiding memory is of busy, uncomfortable roads, I'll be very, very surprised!

Buen Camino

Thanks for the suggestions.  I hope the heat isn’t too bad in Sept and Oct.  The averages on weatherspark looked OK but you never know.

I live in San Diego, CA and yes, I found Spanish drivers (outside of the cities) to be remarkably patient and careful.  Nonetheless, there were a couple of times last year where I found myself on a road with a lot of high speed traffic and no shoulder, feeling like “this is no place for a bicycle!”.  Had I known what those roads were going to be like ahead of time I would have happily taken a long detour.

Nonetheless, there were a couple of times last year where I found myself on a road with a lot of high speed traffic and no shoulder, feeling like “this is no place for a bicycle!”

My understanding is that you "found" a road version of the MTB route online? Personally, I am always wary of using random routes from the Internet unless there is some kind of descriptive element. As you have rightfully pointed out above, we all have different likes and dislikes and some of the roads some people cycle would be hell for me. As a side comment, night cycling is very common in the hotter parts of Spain and a route created from a night ride could be very, very different in daylight.

As for the cities, I have found great patience from vehicles - so long as I am where I am supposed to be! Sometimes the location of the cycle path is not obvious to me and I'm slowing down a taxi, bus or delivery driver. Frustration is to be expected.  

It's a fabulous place for a bike adventure.  

You said you're based in Spain?  What part?   What are some of your favorite parts of Spain to ride in?   I'm always looking for ideas.   I'm a little focused on traveling in Spain at the moment because I like practicing Spanish.

I'm currently in Andulusia, but I expect to be moving on shortly. 

I can't recommend anywhere to cycle in Spain over anywhere else - it's all so good! :-)

I tend to look at a map and ask myself where I want to go rather than what bike routes I want to follow. Spain is heavenlike for that. If there's a bike route I may or may not follow it. When CT suggests a diversion I've never been disappointed.

The only real factor to consider is timing - both for tourists and weather.

If you want ideas I'd always suggest to anyone to look up CrazyGuyOnABike (just stay away from the forum!) A treasure trove of cycling Journals with a very useful search function and an amazing worldwide map of journal posts. No lack of ideas there!

Have to say though, that I'm a bit bemused at a San Diego resident going to Spain to practice Spanish! México and further south offers up lots of interesting roads, culture and people and is generally very welcoming to the wandering bike tourist. And the food!!!!!! :-)

These were last year's wanderings.... I've covered northern Spain previously

You’re right about the irony of traveling from San Diego to Spain to practice Spanish.  

It turns out putting multiple routes in a folder does exactly what I was looking for/asking for, in terms of visualizing alternative routes on a map.   I didn't know about folders.

Terri, if you have a look at the "Routes & Tracks" thread you'll see mention of the possibility of adding a gpx trace to a map which could also serve a purpose for you. I wasn't aware of it earlier.

But, yes, the map from a folder thing is great!